March 4, 2020

My Spouse is Depressed: Loving a Depressed Man

Experts

Hey! I’m Lisa. I am a coach for moms. I’m a mom of seven gorgeous kids and I help moms be great moms while pursuing their personal goals and dreams at the same time. Today… this guy’s joining me.

My husband Josh Canning, and we’re gonna talk about how to love someone with depression and anxiety. So we’d been married for about five years when depression really showed up, and it showed up in a very fierce way. It was very clear to me that this was not just him needing a vacation, or him needing, like, time away or anything like that. It was inability to get out of bed, an inability to find pleasure and all the normal things that normally he would find pleasure in.

It was a total withdrawal from me and the kids. It was just, like, clearly there was something different. So what I’m gonna do is put for you in the cards some videos that sort of can catch you up on our story.

But today, we really want to focus on some of the questions that we both get commonly asked, particularly on this particular video. I have an FAQ video that really dives into, just, I guess some of the fundamental challenges. But also how to overcome them.

Yeah so I follow Lisa’s channel pretty closely and I read the comments. And I’ve noticed that on that particular video Lisa was talking about, a lot of people would ask about HOW to love a spouse with depression, mental illness, anxiety when it seems like it’s it’s not getting through. Like it’s not it’s not reaching them, you know, nothing is working.

What would you say, Lisa, if someone was to ask you, “How do I love this person who has depression (anxiety, mental illness, etc.)?” So we were going on a date just this past…https://mingle2.com/user/view/31376320 like, yesterday. And and I turned to the kids in the car and I said, “Guys, why do you think Mommy and Daddy always go on our weekly date night?” And our oldest child said… what did he say? He said “So you can keep on loving each other.” “So you can keep on loving each other.” And so what I would say is whether depression happens, like, and you already know it when you get married, or it happens like it did to us, sort of partway through and you’re kind of surprised by it- that like this is just an evolution of love.

Like, love requires work. And so this is just a new circumstance. The same way that if you had a child (I say this all the time) if you had a child who is like, diabetic and you had to do things like give him needles, or get take him through regular checkups or what have you, or if you have a child in a wheelchair that required all kinds of different, like, modifications to your home, and your car, and the way you do life, and the way you travel. Like you wouldn’t love them any less.

You just love them and you find ways to adapt, and you find ways to do life different(ly). I think that’s, like, a really key piece, is you’ve got to find ways to do life different. And that you can’t almost focus on fixing them… that’s something that I definitely did before. I was just trying to fix him. [Mmm hmm] You kind of can’t do that. Certainly you can help them, certainly you can encourage them to, like, whatever, like get help.

And I really believe that… I don’t want to say that people can be cured of mental illness because I don’t think it’s that simple. It’s not like… I just don’t think it’s that simple.

You can just take a pill and then all of a sudden you’re completely, like, fine. But I do think that you can change behavior and change thought patterns. I really do.

I really do. [Josh] So kind of embrace the challenge, embrace the work. Would you say also on the topic of the date thing… um embrace, like, some alone time with your spouse? Because a lot of times… I know from from what I’ve heard from from you, with your coaching with moms, a lot of times couples, mental illness or not, they struggle to prioritize date time. Like, date night.

And I think that’s important for EVERYBODY. But I wonder, for the person with mental illness who sometimes needs to get out of their own head and get out of the house and get into a place where they can almost just, you know, let their hair down and be heard. And, and air things out…

I wonder if that’s even more particularly important. What would you say? [Lisa] Yeah, and from the, from the… not that I’m an expert but from the experience I do have in learning about depression and anxiety… uh particularly. Noise and clutter and a sense of, I guess a lack of or an increase in intensity. Like, all these things can be a trigger, like a big time trigger for someone with mental illness.

Hey! I’m Lisa. I am a coach for moms. I’m a mom of seven gorgeous kids and I help moms be great moms while pursuing their personal goals and dreams at the same time. Today… this guy’s joining me.

My husband Josh Canning, and we’re gonna talk about how to love someone with depression and anxiety. So we’d been married for about five years when depression really showed up, and it showed up in a very fierce way. It was very clear to me that this was not just him needing a vacation, or him needing, like, time away or anything like that. It was inability to get out of bed, an inability to find pleasure and all the normal things that normally he would find pleasure in.

It was a total withdrawal from me and the kids. It was just, like, clearly there was something different. So what I’m gonna do is put for you in the cards some videos that sort of can catch you up on our story.

But today, we really want to focus on some of the questions that we both get commonly asked, particularly on this particular video. I have an FAQ video that really dives into, just, I guess some of the fundamental challenges. But also how to overcome them.

Yeah so I follow Lisa’s channel pretty closely and I read the comments. And I’ve noticed that on that particular video Lisa was talking about, a lot of people would ask about HOW to love a spouse with depression, mental illness, anxiety when it seems like it’s it’s not getting through. Like it’s not it’s not reaching them, you know, nothing is working.

What would you say, Lisa, if someone was to ask you, “How do I love this person who has depression (anxiety, mental illness, etc.)?” So we were going on a date just this past… like, yesterday. And and I turned to the kids in the car and I said, “Guys, why do you think Mommy and Daddy always go on our weekly date night?” And our oldest child said… what did he say? He said “So you can keep on loving each other.” “So you can keep on loving each other.” And so what I would say is whether depression happens, like, and you already know it when you get married, or it happens like it did to us, sort of partway through and you’re kind of surprised by it- that like this is just an evolution of love.

Like, love requires work. And so this is just a new circumstance. The same way that if you had a child (I say this all the time) if you had a child who is like, diabetic and you had to do things like give him needles, or get take him through regular checkups or what have you, or if you have a child in a wheelchair that required all kinds of different, like, modifications to your home, and your car, and the way you do life, and the way you travel. Like you wouldn’t love them any less.

You just love them and you find ways to adapt, and you find ways to do life different(ly). I think that’s, like, a really key piece, is you’ve got to find ways to do life different. And that you can’t almost focus on fixing them… that’s something that I definitely did before. I was just trying to fix him. [Mmm hmm] You kind of can’t do that. Certainly you can help them, certainly you can encourage them to, like, whatever, like get help.

And I really believe that… I don’t want to say that people can be cured of mental illness because I don’t think it’s that simple. It’s not like… I just don’t think it’s that simple.

You can just take a pill and then all of a sudden you’re completely, like, fine. But I do think that you can change behavior and change thought patterns. I really do.

I really do. [Josh] So kind of embrace the challenge, embrace the work. Would you say also on the topic of the date thing… um embrace, like, some alone time with your spouse? Because a lot of times… I know from from what I’ve heard from from you, with your coaching with moms, a lot of times couples, mental illness or not, they struggle to prioritize date time. Like, date night.

And I think that’s important for EVERYBODY. But I wonder, for the person with mental illness who sometimes needs to get out of their own head and get out of the house and get into a place where they can almost just, you know, let their hair down and be heard. And, and air things out…

I wonder if that’s even more particularly important. What would you say? [Lisa] Yeah, and from the, from the… not that I’m an expert but from the experience I do have in learning about depression and anxiety… uh particularly. Noise and clutter and a sense of, I guess a lack of or an increase in intensity. Like, all these things can be a trigger, like a big time trigger for someone with mental illness.

And again, I think that the person with mental illness can learn different ways to cope and grow in their ability to handle those triggers. But definitely… removal of the triggers, again like, mental illness are not, I think all parents need to have very regular breaks where it’s quiet and not intense. And where you can just focus on each other and the relationship, and I think especially where mental illness is concerned, you need more constant check-ins, like, emotional support requires talking. And it requires talking in a way that you can actually finish your sentence, like, you know just again in the comments, let me know if you understand the challenge that comes when you’re trying to have a just coherent conversation between grown-ups and you’re interrupted 500 times!

Like, just let me know in the comments if you understand what that feels like. With mental illness, there’s also things that people don’t want to admit. So Josh: let me ask you, and this might be, like, painful to share or maybe you don’t want to share it, but like, what are the common inaccurate things that go through your head (Mmm) commonly. [Josh] Uhh Yeah… these… yeah this is really a look under the hood, isn’t it?

That I’m unlovable. That I am a burden to myself and to my family. That I’m a bad husband and a bad father. That I am just causing more harm than good in the world.

And I know that this is not real, but this is… these are feelings that, you know, if I’m in a particularly anxious or depressed phase, these are feelings that are real.They are …like the feelings are real, that they might not reflect reality, but these are feelings that are real. And they have to go… checked. They can’t go unchecked, because they can just lead to this kind of… you know spiral of downward thinking. [Lisa] And this is, like, perhaps you can tell by my emotional reaction, like, when I hear that I… this is what I believe is the duty and the job of the person who loves.

Like this is a way to love someone who has mental illness: you have to remind them of who they really are. So when he tells me something like that, what I try to do although in the beginning I didn’t do this very well, in the beginning I would just be like “Oh my gosh, why do you keep thinking like this? Like, just stop it!” Like, that’s not helpful. So I would say, number one, like you just accept what they said like, like, “Oh wow, that must be really hard.” Like, “Oh wow, like that must feel really awful.” Like, without judgment, you just sort of empathize and accept what they’ve said. And then I really do think it is the duty and the role of the person who loves the person with anxiety to say like, “You know… you know that’s not real… like, do you know that’s not real?

Like, do you know how much we love you? Do you know how much, you know, you bring joy to our lives? Do you know how much we care about you you? Do you know how much the kids love you?” You know all those things. So I really do believe that it is the… it is the duty.

It is… this is where, like, the love has to come through. But here’s… here’s what is challenging, and I actually want to pull up a youtube comment. So his wife has depression and it’s really hard… or anxiety and it’s really hard. “I try to take the pressure off by really helping with the kids daily chores and much more.

She points the finger at me constantly and tells me I’m doing those things wrong. Even the smallest things like wiping the counters down after I do all the dishes, she’ll yell at me in front of the kids because I don’t do it right. Then we get into a fight because I didn’t like the way she would react.

Date

Do you have any recommendations on how to handle that situation? I say I’m sorry but it isn’t good enough. It’s really hard.” So I bring that comment up because I know in the past it was difficult for me to do what I just said- to do, like, literally say these positive things or to not… no, not even positive things. To say these ACCURATE things because I was feeling so challenged by the reality of things like that. There were times much earlier on when I didn’t know what depression was.

And I hate to admit this, but I’m going to: I mean we’ve already talked about this a lot, but I just felt like it was like… not that he was a burden but that the mental illness was a burden. (For sure.) Like, it’s hard for me to say that out loud. But like, before it felt like a big-time burden. I was pregnant and, like, small kids and there was a time when I just felt like doomed, like, this is our life!

And I’m gonna be a single mother, like, I just felt, you know, like that. But then as I began to understand mental illness and I began to understand the strategies and the things that you can do to thrive with mental illness, I began to change obviously my mindset around it. Um so I just want to acknowledge that comment and that it can be difficult.

It can feel very difficult to be the person who is trying to remain… I guess grounded? Grounded in reality. That can be very hard to do, and I think what I would again suggest is that like, you gotta dig deep within yourself and find that love you have for the person.

Like, all the reasons why you appreciate them, all the reasons why you think they’re amazing. Look, you’ve got to remind yourself of that. You’ve got to like… this is why I think dating is so important: because you are reminded of that. You can be reminded of that on a regular basis when you are spending, like, intimate time together. (mm-hmm). [Josh] I think it’s okay to say that it felt like a burden. What’s the challenge is, and for those of you watching who struggle with mental illness yourself: you might feel like that’s a harsh statement because you identify with the burden yourself, you know, and when I say “I felt like a burden” or “I feel like a burden,” it’s hard for me to dissociate the mental illness from myself.

But for the one who’s loving you, they’re loving YOU, but they’re also feeling like this state, this, this thing that just showed up in your lives together, is a burden. And I think it’s… I think we have to be honest and bit and… and be okay with that. That it is something that is going to be carried, actually, by the two of you. You know?

For me, it’s it’s IN me; for you, you’re loving… loving me but this THING is here, you know? And I think we have to be honest about that. [Lisa] But I think that’s also a really important distinction in this conversation of how do you love the person. That their illness is not them. Like their illness does not define the core of who they are.

I think that is very important to note- their illness is like anything. Like if I broke my ankle it would be super unfair of my spouse to be like, “Oh ,you’re such a burden because you broke an ankle. (Mmm-hmm) That would be unfair. And so, I just really believe that the two have to be sort of… it’s just not equated? That might not be accurate but just… it’s an illness. Mental health is illness, like in health. [Josh] And you can remind them that it “doesn’t define you.” Like, “This is not what defines you.” (Mmm-hmm) “But I accept this in you.

But this is not what defines you.” (Mmm-hmm) You know going back to that comment about “What am I supposed to do?” You know the commenter on your on your youtube channel about “when my wife gets all upset and she doesn’t like how I do things.” It sounds like a… like anxiety talking, you know? And it’s also tough if you know, a lot of times frustration people might have with their spouse with mental illness is they won’t… their spouse won’t admit the mental illness. Umm.. but in those kinds of cases, and i know this might not seem fair, but you might want to have a bit of a toolbox of questions or responses that you can use to defuse the situation. So I have a friend who is married to somebody with extreme anxiety and I’ve seen him use this phrase: “What would be helpful right now?” And I think that’s kind of interesting, ’cause it almost gives some power back to the person who’s maybe not acting rationally themselves.

They might be blowing up a little bit, but it’s like, “What would be helpful right now?” [Lisa] Is it fair to say that anxiety, like, craves control? Like, like it is that fair? So like the… not to, you know, not to analyze this one commenter, but is she possibly coming at the wiping of the counters because she really wants to control something? [Josh] It’s hard to say, right?

It’s our… our psychology is tangled and convoluted. But I don’t know. I sometimes have the phrase… like, “My anxiety loves a dance partner.” It’s like… it’s like it finds something and then it just wants to go. So it could be the lack of control of the situation in the home or it could be a lack of control at work or it could be just, you know, this surprise or that surprise, and then before you know it, anxiety is just, you know, dancing and running wild!

And so yeah, that’s tough. it’s a… it’s tough. So what else, Lis, you know, so you’ve been married to me and there wasn’t mental illness for a while. And then all of a sudden, there was.

And it’s become kind of a reality in our life. What’s different? How… how is it different loving a person with anxiety, depression versus, you know, versus not? What… what had to change in the way that you loved your spouse once this became a reality? [Lisa] That’s a good question.

At first I was gonna say, nothing. Because really in a way, you love somebody, or you should love somebody regardless of whatever faults and failings and things that you don’t like about them. So in a way it hasn’t changed but what I would say is that it’s a much more mature love. Like I’m in this for the long haul, you know what I mean?

There is no like, for me, it’s it’s not there’s no… I’m not trading in any kind of model, do you know what I mean? Like it’s just, I’m in this! And so I think when you can commit and say that “I’m in this for the long haul, regardless of anything.” That does take a different… like. like, maturity, is the best word I can describe.

Like… it’s a… it’s a much more (mmm) it’s a very deep, like, kind of love. I don’t know… like, and it’s… it’s (sigh) To commit when it’s hard is a choice. (hmm) Just like to show up in a way that is, whatever, positive or graceful or whatever, like, is a choice! Like I have choice in how I respond to mental illness in our marriage. I did not always choose the graceful (hahaha) the graceful response.

But I would say that as a result of doing a lot of hard work and that hard work coming out of a love for you… our marriage is stronger and better and, like, resilient. I think that’s another thing that I’ve really been reflecting on is resilience in marriage and how that has come as a result of mental illness, like we have become such a resilient couple. Um and there are many benefits to being resilient. In my opinion… like I could just be saying this to myself to comfort myself, I suppose, but I do believe like, just resilience is necessary to deal with moving homes and making big life decisions. I’m launching a book and all the emotional ups and downs that go with all of that, and I really do believe that the challenges, the significant challenges that we faced have helped prepare us to be resilient in order to thrive in the things that we’re currently doing.

And I just like, I love this expression and I don’t know who to attribute this to- I apologize I want to say it might be Bob Proctor- but that “life is not done to you, it’s done for you.” If you actually know who I can properly quote let me know in the comments below! Life is not being done to, you it’s being done for you. And so while I definitely didn’t believe this earlier, now I 100% believe that this has strengthened our marriage and really helped us in thriving in life to be honest.

What would you say about that? [Josh] Yeah, well I was gonna ask you, because I know for myself I’ve written about how depression, you know, is… is this tough thing but it does have upsides. Which sounds crazy, it doesn’t… even still you know, with so much… I guess what’s the word? Like, miles in the in the rearview mirror, I still wouldn’t say that I would choose to have a depression or anxiety. But there are things that come out of it that you learn about yourself, that you learn about others, in the ways in which you allow yourself to be loved by others, in the way in which you begin to regard yourself a little bit more humbly or small or just take yourself more lightly… there are things that help you grow as a person about having mental illness that you wouldn’t you wouldn’t face if you didn’t.

So what I was gonna ask you actually is kind of on the same line of what you’re talking about in terms of resilience and things. But would you say… like how would you say loving somebody with mental illness has helped you grow as a person? [Lisa] You know, how when you have a baby, you’re all of a sudden like “Oh my gosh, it’s like the cure for selfishness.” I think it’s kind of similar like this is kind of similar. You get like a baby- I’m not comparing you to baby- (It sounds like she is…) I kind of am but like when you have a baby you might get frustrated that “Uggh they’re waking up again. I’m so tired! Da da da” But you take care of them, you don’t let the baby cry you know what I mean?

Like when the baby has another blowout up the back and you need like 700 wives you know you’re… you’re like, you might be inconvenienced and you may be like “Ohh my gosh I have to clean up another… ohh and it’s all over here!” You still clean it up because you want that baby to be comforted, right? So not that you’re a newborn infant! But it definitely sounds like I’m comparing you to a newborn infant and I definitely am BUT (“Okay, we’ll go with it for now”) go with me here: I want you to thrive.

And so I find a place within myself to be serving. Like like to be helpful, like the same way that when a baby cries in the middle of the night you get out of bed you might not be happy about it and definitely there were times that I was not exactly happy about, you know, I don’t know, “Okay here we go, we’re gonna change something else.” Whatever, but you do it out of love. Just think about that for a minute: you don’t let a baby cry. You just don’t.

I don’t know, at least most people like wouldn’t just let a baby cry. You pick that baby up, you shush it, you try. You might be really overwhelmed in the pursuit of helping the baby but, like, you want to comfort them and you do it out of a place of… like, somehow the strength comes like, you know what I mean?

And I think a marriage is the same, and I think mental illness is the same, where I think that you can be given the strength and the grace I believe that comes from the Holy Spirit and from God giving me the grace and the strength to handle it. And if I can just go on a small tangent: for me in my worldview and my understanding of things that is 100% how we have gotten through all of this. Like, God, and his hand in all of this… he has never forsaken us even when I feel like he has. He has never! When I look back at the history of our marriage like there was always something to learn and even if it felt horrible we did come out the other end changed, and better for it.

I just believe that so… like, with so much passion. And so yeah… I don’t know what what else to say to that. I don’t know (“yeah”).

You’re not a baby! [Josh] Some people will take that analogy the wrong way but you know what? I… I’m very cool with that, because it’s an analogy and it makes me think of… we have a one-year-old right now, Phoebe, who is just unbelievable. And the love that’s poured out on her from those around her is unbelievable.

And when you love a baby, you realize, like you kind of marvel, and it’s like they do nothing for you, really. I mean, except be themselves. And yet they elicit love and you just want to pour it out on them. And you know there may be moments where it’s hard to remember what you love about your spouse if they’re really in the midst of all this stuff.

You know, you might be… I know you’ve said before it was like “Where did my spouse go?” I remember describing from my perspective, it was like, “Where did my personality go? Whose personality do I have right now?

How come I’m not making jokes? How come I struggle to even go and have social contact? Like, who is this person?” And you know, you referenced a spiritual sort of view of things but it… when I love a baby like that, regardless of what they provide, when you love a ill person regardless of what they provide, it allows us to love as we think God loves, as we believe God loves, independent of what we do or earn or what not. But just… just by nature of being made in a beautifully fearfully and wonderful way. [Lisa] It really does like… not to get too philosophical or like existential here but like it does present interesting things to think about, about like a person’s value and like, what it means to be deserving of love.

Again, not to get super deep but like it does present those things like: do I love you because of what you produce for me? Right? Like, that’s kind of shallow!

Like if I just loved you because you were like good looking and, like, you brought money home and like, I don’t know like you… you whatever! Like, just like because you produce things, right? That’s a really shallow version of love, right? But if I can love you, to use this analogy again, like a newborn infant who doesn’t really do anything to earn the love, they just exist… I think that’s an interesting thing to talk about, like what does it mean to be deserving of love?

And like, do we catch ourselves almost in like, “He has to do certain things for me to love him.” Like is that fair, right? That’s way deeper than I meant the conversation to go. And I am crying and it has made my false eyelash fall off FYI If I look like a person with…

I don’t know just… we’re gonna keep going. [Josh] Yeah we’re going raw. Um this… I know at times so we’ve dealt with sickness in different ways in our marriage. When we were when we were newlyweds we dealt with cancer diagnosis for Lisa you know what just you know then got away in the rear view but in those moments when it feels like, “How are we gonna get past this?” We think to the vows right? “In sickness and health, in good times and bad, for richer for poorer, for better or worse” and you realize that yeah, like if we were just saying yes to the feelings then it would be hard to go for the long haul.

But the resilience that you were talking about comes in recognizing that, you know, failure is not an option. We’re gonna get it we’re gonna get through this. ah what else tips and tricks have you learned that you would say as part of my toolbox my strategy in loving somebody with depression Herrmann’s on this don’t try to change them I think that was really like and I think that’s that’s a lesson we all need to learn in marriage like I think I think we would have fought a lot less in the first year of our marriage if I wasn’t always like to do things my way just a little bit there are a lot of fights oh my gosh so many my next book like how do not how to survive your first year what not to do but um yeah I think like there were times when I didn’t understand my mental illness was and I just thought this was behavior and that you could just change the behavior and that it wasn’t really influenced by anything like meaning it was just like you’re acting like this and that’s really annoying like if there wasn’t like this very like complex underlying things impacting those behaviors so yeah I would say like don’t try to change them but encourage them to get the support and help they need and so what do I mean by that obviously by seeing a doctor by doing regular visits to a counselor or psychotherapist or therapist whatever um and by doing the work so there’s things like that we all need to do like cognitive behavioral therapy which is and like mindfulness like such a buzzword now to talk about mindfulness but just literally what I think we all did you because everyone has a level of anxiety and I describe it as like an elastic band and sometimes some people can exist with the elastic band pulled like this you know what I mean pull pull pull and they can exist like that I have a fairly high threshold for anxiety I can be in that place of tension for a long time whereas other people like they just know ya with clinical anxiety in there they don’t just snap like like you pull it and then it’s gone and then there’s no more coping however sometimes with meditation with proper regular counseling with you know checking in whatever you can you can exist a person with clinical anxiety can exist at various degrees of tension of the elastic um but I think that’s a nice analogy for people to understand like you can’t change the threshold of their elastic I guess is what I’m trying to say analogies are so interesting really annoying I don’t know I use them a lot but don’t try to change them don’t try to change them to be more like you like don’t try to be like well I can cope with all of this anxiety why can’t you just get on the train come on like it’s not fair it’s not good but you were friends cognitive behavioral therapy and for those who aren’t familiar it’s really just recognizing there is choice within our own thought patterns so we could get you know an example is you could be you know stuck in traffic and you begin to just see then get really upset and you know oh why can’t that city build better roads and what why are all these other people here getting whatever we’re instead you can say well I guess I’m gonna be here for a little while well no matter what would be a good radio station to listen to or what would be a great thing to think about or you know maybe that’s where you bring in your meditation or what not and so maybe in in loving somebody with mental illness you might find ways to ask some questions that might help them so again not trying to change that I’m not trying to remove everything but ask some questions it might help them think a little bit differently about the situation and then and maybe we’ll wrap it up here yes unless you have something else burning like burning how their thing so that I can take this eyelash off and not be so distracted by it but I do think that you have to do as the person supporting them you’ve got to do this CBT this mindfulness on like yourself meaning you can’t take everything personally and this is also I think again goes beyond mental illness like just in general I think everyone in life would get a lot further along by not taking things so personally really and truly just like and so when something happens like the comment from the my YouTube viewer so if that happened with us so if I was cleaning the kitchen and then Josh was frustrated that I didn’t clean the kitchen you know well I would hope I’m not saying I would do this all the time but I would hope that I would be able to pause if I was prefer if I was behaving his most ideal version of myself is what I’m trying to say I would pause and I would go like is something triggering what’d he say that’s what I would say in my head like I would literally just stop I wouldn’t respond I would saying something triggering what he said is he overwhelmed right now are there other things going on will it help the situation if I get frustrated like that’s what I would hope I would say and then I would probably just finish what I was doing be like thank you for your feedback not saying that that’s an easy thing to do in that moment but thank you for your feedback and then remove myself from the situation and then later on when it’s not intense I think that’s the key to later on when it’s not intense you say hey earlier in the kitchen in front of the kids you were getting it seemed like you were getting quite upset with the way I was wiping the counters mm-hmm can we talk about that a little bit and then wait just wait they might be like no I don’t talk about her or not whatever and then be at peace with that like even though I might frustrate you but just be at peace with that and then maybe a little bit later you can bring it up again so I’m not trying to say you’re a doormat when you are the person supporting but I think your strategic like you’re just strategic at finding non intense moments I don’t know what do you think about that that’s very wise no no makes a lot of sense we’ve been doing this a long time any other final thoughts I just want to say to the person out there loving the person with anxiety depression etc you know God bless you I know it’s not an easy walk and you’re not always gonna feel like you’re being seen and your hard work and your sacrifice is being seen and that’s tough but I know you’re out there and I appreciate it and and I appreciate all the hard work you do in our family and how you put up with the challenges that my mental illness brings so thank you for that and it said what it is it’s because I love him like there’s no other response like it’s because I love you you YouTube thank you and just you made me think of one thing Josh um I’m in a private Facebook group totally private um don’t ask me to join it sorry it’s a truly private group for people who support spouses with mental illness and it is a source of great comfort and consolation to me um people post things in there they’re very honest they’re very vulnerable um like and and you need that you need to find people who understand your path like both supporting someone’s mental illness because like it can be very isolating you can’t walk it alone you cannot you really cannot in my opinion and I think that if you can gain insight and experience from people who are further along the journey than you it will give you hope I really do believe that so one of the things that we didn’t you know touch deeper on that I could have spoken about a great life is how do you dispose who supports someone because that is such an essential piece we touched on it a little bit and but I could talk about about a great length and I’ve got some other videos so I have made for you a playlist that I will put for you right here in the cards and so go on over there and I’ll see you on the other side

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